The silo effect is very real in MMA coverage. The Substackers, the Twitterati, the remaining Facebookers, the Youtubers, Tiktokers, Rumblers. I don't know how people keep up.
It was divisive enough when it was Underground Forum and Sherdog. Yes, things got nasty at times on TUF but there was room to get PBP and some decent multi-paragraph content. Sherdog's board had a mixture of great long-form with horrible short-form "nuthugger" after "nuthugger" flame wars.
This is an altogether different beast in 2024. It's less about arguing over fights than the political associations connected to UFC as a political shop itself.
I listen to Luke and Brian because I'm always looking for a different perspective. Same with John Nash & Stephie. I try to listen to some of these more "popular" hosts and even at 1.75x I just find myself wondering what I am doing with my life.
It's funny that the stock/options crowd for TKO is a much more fascinating and interesting crowd to talk fight sports with than the fans who are actually (or supposedly) paying for the PPVs.
My only observation on MMA Guru is how much longer will Endeavor tolerate him before they decide to (proverbially speaking) order the Code Red. UFC didn't take out Ariel. I'm interested to see how long this cold peace lasts.
I understand the broader point of this article that the UFC product has been so carelessly milked that the quality has declined substantially and lots of redpilled assholes have become the new MMA media. That ultimate conclusion doesn’t excuse the blatantly sexist and gross title/subtitle/opening paragraphs. I truly value your analysis but I’m also a woman martial artist and it depresses the fuck out of me every time I read WMMA hate
Sorry, I realize now that I should have clarified the distance between my own take and that of the UFC's awful fan base.
My issue is the enshittification of the entire UFC product and women's MMA is just at the leading edge of that process.
Nothing is less appropriate for their volume volume volume approach to content content content than Women's MMA, which just honestly doesn't have the number or quality of competitors to endure TKO's approach.
FWIW, I feel the same way about the smallest male divisions, too. There's great skill & heart on display (sometimes) but it's presented in the worst possible way.
I would encourage Nate to reply to your comment here. Hopefully when he gets back from traveling he can do so.
What I will say, only my behalf, is that I was around when women's MMA started developing. All the various independent promotions including Hook 'n Shoot. I marvel that the late Gary Shaw had a better understanding of the value of women's MMA than UFC does. Scott Coker was masterful at developing and promoting WMMA talent.
I put a significant amount of blame on the entire UFC office for not understanding how to develop or promote talent but talent especially in WMMA. They're created this ecosystem where the only way to get attention or be rewarded is ass shaking in a cage, OnlyFans, Twitter trolling (like Tracy Cortez), or Instagramming.
This is on management. The fans take their cue from the office and the TV production. Those of us who saw the rise of WMMA -- the stories, the personalities, the uphill fight -- really appreciated what we were witnessing. We're also completely churned out by the Endeavor era of UFC ownership. I peg the fan churn rate to be about 3-to-5 years before those fans get replaced.
Always love the writing. Been a UFC "fan" since 1994. It's getting more challenging. The content driven evolution has driven me away from consuming every event. I have skipped more PPV's than ever. At what point will it matter ? When sponsors start losing money ? When the real fan interest plummets and aligns with a broadcast contract renewal ? I am guessing the PPV model will change, ESPN is reportedly paying for 500,000 buys as a flat rate. Can't imagine most of the content driven cards get close to that. Just a select few I would think. Right Wing - Left Wing - Progressive - all terms to put us on fighting "teams" while the big boys rake in the profits, until...... there are no more plebes who are able to provide profits. Guru is speaking for plebes.
It’s slop. Just more content for the pigs to lap up. The fans that yelled at you and Luke talking about over saturation have had their chickens come home to roost. There aren’t enough men to fill these cards so they need the women. Thankfully, American society is about to collapse so we won’t need MMA to see no holds barred fights. They’ll be in grocery stores fighting over the last bit of food.
I'm a man on the wrong side of 45 and I rather enjoy WMMA–have since Strikeforce. I don't know the true maths, but I expect about the same proportion of shit fights to good fights compared to the men's fights. Regardless, I'm forgiving because the talent pool is smaller and has more challenges to develop than the men's side. I know going in that a Pennington fight isn't likely to produce an earthshattering moment, but g-d damn if I haven't jumped out of my seat and wept at the beauty of moments produced by Nunes, Cyborg, Thug Rose, Weilei, and Joanna over the years.
Is there any real evidence to support the idea that big cities demand female fighter main events because of liberal political leanings? Women's sports seem to be having quite a moment in general with Caitlyn Clark in the WNBA and the PWHL forming last year. They broadly sell tickets and merchandise and that could be all there is too it.
It's an interesting angle to be sure. I'm just not completely sold on the idea. Maybe being a double- daughter-dad makes me biased but I like to think support for women's sports has improved organically.
Fight Oracle's tweet about sponsor decks is interesting reporting in the sense that he is true believer in TKO and PFL. This is a man who does put his money where his mouth in for investing. He does have access to some information most people are not privileged to.
He rarely says a bad word at all about UFC. If he's sounding off, then the mood is souring.
It's not uncommon with government contracts to see various requirements or considerations, especially with minority-owned construction companies. We don't know the full extent of all the various contracts TKO obtains from various agencies. They don't just apply with one agency for a show -- as their past record indicates, they have multiple deals with multiple agencies per show. They recently tried to fight disclosure over an agreement with San Antonio under the guise of "trade secrets." In Utah, they require fighters to "opt-out" for salary disclosure. Otherwise, that information now remains secret.
The thing with heavyweights is they're so incapable of putting together even an adequate quantity of shit fights that they rarely headline cards (so fewer five rounders) and almost never have more than one on a single card.
Since the Endeavor purchase in 2016 they've gone out of their way to cultivate a right-wing fanbase by allowing Dana to endorse Trump, having Trump on PPVs, no longer punishing fighters for racist/sexist/transphobic language etc.
It's always attracted goons but it was only after they put up the great big WELCOME sign that things got so out of hand.
The silo effect is very real in MMA coverage. The Substackers, the Twitterati, the remaining Facebookers, the Youtubers, Tiktokers, Rumblers. I don't know how people keep up.
It was divisive enough when it was Underground Forum and Sherdog. Yes, things got nasty at times on TUF but there was room to get PBP and some decent multi-paragraph content. Sherdog's board had a mixture of great long-form with horrible short-form "nuthugger" after "nuthugger" flame wars.
This is an altogether different beast in 2024. It's less about arguing over fights than the political associations connected to UFC as a political shop itself.
I listen to Luke and Brian because I'm always looking for a different perspective. Same with John Nash & Stephie. I try to listen to some of these more "popular" hosts and even at 1.75x I just find myself wondering what I am doing with my life.
It's funny that the stock/options crowd for TKO is a much more fascinating and interesting crowd to talk fight sports with than the fans who are actually (or supposedly) paying for the PPVs.
My only observation on MMA Guru is how much longer will Endeavor tolerate him before they decide to (proverbially speaking) order the Code Red. UFC didn't take out Ariel. I'm interested to see how long this cold peace lasts.
I understand the broader point of this article that the UFC product has been so carelessly milked that the quality has declined substantially and lots of redpilled assholes have become the new MMA media. That ultimate conclusion doesn’t excuse the blatantly sexist and gross title/subtitle/opening paragraphs. I truly value your analysis but I’m also a woman martial artist and it depresses the fuck out of me every time I read WMMA hate
Sorry, I realize now that I should have clarified the distance between my own take and that of the UFC's awful fan base.
My issue is the enshittification of the entire UFC product and women's MMA is just at the leading edge of that process.
Nothing is less appropriate for their volume volume volume approach to content content content than Women's MMA, which just honestly doesn't have the number or quality of competitors to endure TKO's approach.
FWIW, I feel the same way about the smallest male divisions, too. There's great skill & heart on display (sometimes) but it's presented in the worst possible way.
I would encourage Nate to reply to your comment here. Hopefully when he gets back from traveling he can do so.
What I will say, only my behalf, is that I was around when women's MMA started developing. All the various independent promotions including Hook 'n Shoot. I marvel that the late Gary Shaw had a better understanding of the value of women's MMA than UFC does. Scott Coker was masterful at developing and promoting WMMA talent.
I put a significant amount of blame on the entire UFC office for not understanding how to develop or promote talent but talent especially in WMMA. They're created this ecosystem where the only way to get attention or be rewarded is ass shaking in a cage, OnlyFans, Twitter trolling (like Tracy Cortez), or Instagramming.
This is on management. The fans take their cue from the office and the TV production. Those of us who saw the rise of WMMA -- the stories, the personalities, the uphill fight -- really appreciated what we were witnessing. We're also completely churned out by the Endeavor era of UFC ownership. I peg the fan churn rate to be about 3-to-5 years before those fans get replaced.
Always love the writing. Been a UFC "fan" since 1994. It's getting more challenging. The content driven evolution has driven me away from consuming every event. I have skipped more PPV's than ever. At what point will it matter ? When sponsors start losing money ? When the real fan interest plummets and aligns with a broadcast contract renewal ? I am guessing the PPV model will change, ESPN is reportedly paying for 500,000 buys as a flat rate. Can't imagine most of the content driven cards get close to that. Just a select few I would think. Right Wing - Left Wing - Progressive - all terms to put us on fighting "teams" while the big boys rake in the profits, until...... there are no more plebes who are able to provide profits. Guru is speaking for plebes.
I think Ari will be able to gull Netflix out of a record media contract before the bottom falls out.
It’s slop. Just more content for the pigs to lap up. The fans that yelled at you and Luke talking about over saturation have had their chickens come home to roost. There aren’t enough men to fill these cards so they need the women. Thankfully, American society is about to collapse so we won’t need MMA to see no holds barred fights. They’ll be in grocery stores fighting over the last bit of food.
Nate, thanks to you I'm all in on the MMA Guru taking down Ari. He'll do it before Judge Boulware :D
I'm a man on the wrong side of 45 and I rather enjoy WMMA–have since Strikeforce. I don't know the true maths, but I expect about the same proportion of shit fights to good fights compared to the men's fights. Regardless, I'm forgiving because the talent pool is smaller and has more challenges to develop than the men's side. I know going in that a Pennington fight isn't likely to produce an earthshattering moment, but g-d damn if I haven't jumped out of my seat and wept at the beauty of moments produced by Nunes, Cyborg, Thug Rose, Weilei, and Joanna over the years.
yea, at it's best WMMA is as great as men's MMA but the product the UFC is slopping up is not that
Is there any real evidence to support the idea that big cities demand female fighter main events because of liberal political leanings? Women's sports seem to be having quite a moment in general with Caitlyn Clark in the WNBA and the PWHL forming last year. They broadly sell tickets and merchandise and that could be all there is too it.
It's not that they *demand* it, it's that it makes the product easier to sell to liberal political decision-makers, but that's just an assumption.
It's an interesting angle to be sure. I'm just not completely sold on the idea. Maybe being a double- daughter-dad makes me biased but I like to think support for women's sports has improved organically.
it has and that's part of why Women's MMA is a big part of the UFC sales pitch to elected officials. It's clearly not popular with the UFC fan base.
Fight Oracle's tweet about sponsor decks is interesting reporting in the sense that he is true believer in TKO and PFL. This is a man who does put his money where his mouth in for investing. He does have access to some information most people are not privileged to.
He rarely says a bad word at all about UFC. If he's sounding off, then the mood is souring.
It's not uncommon with government contracts to see various requirements or considerations, especially with minority-owned construction companies. We don't know the full extent of all the various contracts TKO obtains from various agencies. They don't just apply with one agency for a show -- as their past record indicates, they have multiple deals with multiple agencies per show. They recently tried to fight disclosure over an agreement with San Antonio under the guise of "trade secrets." In Utah, they require fighters to "opt-out" for salary disclosure. Otherwise, that information now remains secret.
The thing with heavyweights is they're so incapable of putting together even an adequate quantity of shit fights that they rarely headline cards (so fewer five rounders) and almost never have more than one on a single card.
no they're not. the UFC chose to cultivate a sexist racist fanbase and here we are
Since the Endeavor purchase in 2016 they've gone out of their way to cultivate a right-wing fanbase by allowing Dana to endorse Trump, having Trump on PPVs, no longer punishing fighters for racist/sexist/transphobic language etc.
It's always attracted goons but it was only after they put up the great big WELCOME sign that things got so out of hand.